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From:  Valerie Sutton
Date:  Mon Nov 13, 2000  11:48 pm
Subject:  Re: OK! I need your opinions ;-))....

On 11/13/00, Stefan Woehrmann wrote:
>great idea to involve the people who are working with your system day by day

SignWriting List
November 13, 2000

Yes - I always include those who write day by day - as I have done
for 25 years...otherwise we wouldn't have the writing system we have!!

And in this case, I presented the dots long lots of people
in the early 1990's, plus to you too...

The people I talked to in the 1990's felt it was too hard to write by
hand... the dark square with the light dot...just as Ingvild
expressed in an earlier message yesterday....

So in 1995, for the Second Edition of the Lessons in SignWriting
textbook, and for SignWriter 4.3...I chose not to add to our symbol
set...that was 1995....

But I consider the Second Edition out-of-date now - but of course I
know there is nothing you can do about that until I finish the third
edition! But don't quote the Second Edition as if it is God - I don't
follow it myself....

Now in regards to when we talked about it on the SignWriting was on February 25th...please read this entire
the bottom it shows the hand position you are asking about with the

Message About Protruding Fingers, February 25, 2000

Tomorrow, in another message, I will explain some of the problems
with all this - no symbol is perfect because when we use the dots, it
is hard to show that the thumb tip is touching something - The sign
for "father" for example, in ASL, loses a lot of the visual feeling
of thumb-touching the forehead...because it is a dot and you can't
place the contact star right on the read the thumb line
faster in ASL as far as I can tell, but we have not tested this
enough to really give us some data.

That is why we have been writing lines for fingers - it is easier to
see some positions with the finger lines, and other times the dots
are nice - in other words - there are exceptions no matter which
version we choose - and that is why rules are only partially

I have a dear dear friend in the hospital, and I am worried sick over
her - She is one of the most skilled DanceWriters and SignWriters we
have and I must go visit her in the hospital - I will try to get back
to your messages tomorrow -

Meanwhile...I am curious...the deaf class at SignNet...what do you
think of the dots? You were arguing about how to write the lines...I
am curious what a group of Deaf adults thinks of the dots versus the

Many thanks for your feedback everyone, and thanks Stefan, for your
contribution to this topic - you have been terrific!

Val ;-)


Valerie Sutton

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