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From:  Valerie Sutton
Date:  Mon Jun 19, 2000  7:23 pm
Subject:  First Two Signs on the Video

At 11:47 AM +0900 5/26/00, Mark Penner wrote:
>For the third (Waynes 2nd), I liked Stephan's a lot, though I might have
>used a straight arrow for the angle instead of the curved. Again, these are
>hard distinctions to draw, at least for me. Both Wayne and Stephan saw the
>third with fingers together, and that seems better to me than mine too. I
>found the two arrows on Waynes confusing, and mine had no arm movement
>indicated at all, whereas in the video, there was, I think.
>What fun! It's wonderful to get such feedback.

SignWriting List
June 19, 2000

Thank you, Mark, Joe, Wayne and Stefan for your writing of the video
- it is really great!

In the paragraph above, Mark is referring to the attachment below. It
was sent a long time ago. I just looked at it today for the first

The attachment shows the same two signs written from a videotape,
written by four different people. Everyone wrote the same two signs
differently. Now I am the can see my writing at the is number 5 and quite different - Interesting, isn't it?

ALL of them are fine, and there are no mistakes - no wrong or right
-simply different choices and different perspectives....Transcribing
audio tapes with the International Phonetic Alphabet would also be
quite different from writer to writer, and produce different
interpretations of sounds too.

To explain from my perspective...I always start with facial
expressions. They are the center of the sign.

The facial circle acts as the anchor of the sign, and also the center
line of the entire vertical column of signs.

And since no extra special movement happened with the shoulders, the
Shoulder Line is not necessary, IF you are writing the facial
expressions. The facial circle replaces the need for a Shoulder Line.
You still know location, and level etc. because the facial circle is

I am not basing this on a knowledge of signed languages. I have no
idea what the meaning of the signs are, and I don't care either. But
I do see movement patterns from experience transcribing foreign
signed languages, and to this date, I have found that almost all
signed languages mark topics with the eyebrows up. I may be wrong.
But from my experience most sentences begin with the eyebrows up.

In ASL there is no question about this. Not because I know ASL. But
because researchers have found this to be true. One of those
researchers is Dr. Karen van Hoek, who wrote Course 4: Writing
Grammar Lessons in ASL, on the web. You might want to visit our
Lessons page, and read Karen's lesson on writing Topic Markers.
Although she is referring to ASL, other signed languages have this

For me there was an emphasis on the down motion at the end of the
second sign. That is why I placed the down motion on the head, to
coordinate with the motion of the wrist, and notice the Fast symbol
at the end of the motion, to show emphasis on the end of the motion.

You may feel there are too many facial expressions, but I personally
suspect, that they are valuable reading aids to grammar, so when in
doubt write more facial expressions rather than less...

Since I have financial stress right now, I will not be able to
continue this course for at least a week. I must fulfill book orders,
because they bring in income. I also have a new source of income,
which I will share with you later....

So here is the GIF - thanks everyone for your input!

Type: image/gif
Size: 6k

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