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From:  Charles Butler
Date:  Tue Jan 22, 2002  11:18 pm
Subject:  Re: ZURICH: Some general questions

Here are my thoughts on the queries on orientations of the fist and of a
single finger in a diagonal plane.

1) For the fist, I would show a wrist flex to show the orientation of the
palm of the fist pointing to the non-dominant side for the first position,
then a turn out and up to the final position, with the wrist line giving a
clear orientation of the fist upright and palm facing outward.

2) For the finger on the diagonal plane, I thought that one of the options
that was discussed was to put the "spot" for closer or the "line" for away,
directly on the finger to indicate its relative diagonal in the plane
perpendicular to the body. The arrow starts off thick and the top and thin
at the bottom to show the same thing, movement in a straight line down and

These are my first tries at the queries, using rules which have been
discussed before without creating anything new.

Charles Butler

----- Original Message -----
From: Valerie Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 11:39 AM
Subject: ZURICH: Some general questions

Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002
From: Penny Braem
Subject: Zurich - some general questions

Dear Val,

Here are some general questions that have cropped us as the Noah notation
went along:

1. In closed fist handshapes (with the thumb crossed over the fingers), is
there a way to differentiate between different orientations of the
thumbtip? In the DSGS sign for goat, for example, the fist is placed on
the chin, palm facing the body, with the crossed-over thumbtip pointing to
the nondominant (left) side; the hand then moves in a downward curve out
from the body, ending with the palm facing away and thumbtip up. Another
DSGS sign is made at the same location, with the same handshape and palm
orientation, but with the thumbtip pointed up (like in the ASL sign at the
forehead for DUMB, or the orientation of the hand for the ASL sign for

2. In notating sign text, do you already have some convention to show that
a sign is held by one hand through the production of following signs? Just
to notate it with a normal handshape symbol seems somewhat odd, as it looks
like it's a part of the formation of the current sign, rather than the
continuation (holding) of a previous sign.
We can use PhotoShop to make the ,retained' sign grayer or something. But
maybe there is some way to show this directly in SW?

3.We are uncertain how to notate a movement which goes between two planes
(for example, in sentence 2 'lava flowing' moves both forward and from high
to low; or in Sent. 12 in which the pointing index sign (IX) has a
diagonal forward and down orientation of the fingertip as well as movement
...) Do you have to combine the two symbols for forwards and downwards, or do
you have some symbol to add to the forwards arrow, to show that it is also

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