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From:  Charles Butler
Date:  Sat Jul 8, 2000  12:33 pm
Subject:  Re: rotation symbols and directions

Looking at Stephan's illustration, I am mightily confused. I want ONE WAY
to write a rotation, not two ways.

One spelling for a movement, not two. If a right hand rotates toward me,
there should be one and only one way to write this. The SW system should be
based on the pinky side or the thumb side (not both for the same movement).
Which line do I look at Valerie? You are the inventor, pick one. I don't
want two ways to write exactly the same movement. That has always been the
beauty of sign writing for me. Two people can't write the exact same
movement two different ways. One is RIGHT, the other is WRONG from a
systematic approach. You write what you see, and there is ONLY ONE WAY to
write a given movement, not two approaches. I teach the system, and if I
cannot correct my students to learn ONE WAY, then I feel trapped.

If a hand starts flat, you see the back of it, a dark rectangle with a thumb
sticking out to the left side (a right hand). The right hand, and you flip
it over so that it pivots toward your body, HOW DO YOU WRITE THAT. There
should be ONE and only ONE way to write that movement. Whether your pinky
is sticking out, or your thumb is sticking out, it should be ONE AND ONLY
ONE POSSIBLE ARROW to describe the movement. If I use the ASL "i" hand or
the ASL "ten" hand, there should be ONLY one arrow to show that my RIGHT
hand is moving toward my body, not away from it. It would eliminate half
the possible arrowheads as some rotations would be reserved for right hand
movements, and some for left hand movements, but it would be clear,
unequivocal, and I could look at a sign and say, "Did you really mean to
write that, you are a contortionist if you have taken THAT arrow and gone
THAT way. The pivot line is based on the PINKY (or the THUMB) whatever YOU
decide Valerie, and that movement is physically impossible.

From the illustration by Stefan, the Deep Peace poem I wrote could not be
wrong in my original writing, the arrow would only have to moved above the
hands, rather than below the hands. I flipped it around because of
criticism that the hands couldn't move the way they were shown. Now I am
told that the arrow itself was fine, had it been written on the screen above
the hands. THAT'S NOT FAIR. I want ONE ARROW, that shows ONE THING, no
matter where on the page it is written. If the arrow is a rotation arrow,
with two vertical lines, and the curved line on it comes down the page and
the arrow point is on the right it means a rotation that comes toward me
whether that is the right hand or the left hand. If the curved line goes up
the page, then that means the movement is away from me. The curved arrow
toward me is assumed SHADED to show movement TOWARD me.

Am I reading this correctly? I want ONE ARROW that means ONE MOVEMENT ALL
THE TIME, not the same movement with the same starting and ending hands,

----- Original Message -----
From: Valerie Sutton
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: rotation symbols and directions

> At 11:39 PM +0200 7/7/00, Stefan Woehrmann wrote:
> >(When I write these signs - I use another methaper for me myself. I think
> >a boxingglove . It is round and you can paint the arrows in front or
> >behind ) looking from above - you can imagine - how the arrows (curved
> >because of the curved surface of the glove) would move while you rotate
> >arm clockwise or counterclockwise - Just in case somebody is interested
> >Stefan ;-)
> SignWriting List
> July 7, 2000
> Hello Stefan and Everyone!
> It makes me feel better too, to see that maybe I am on the right road
> to explaining these symbols - I am learning how to explain my own
> thinking.
> I am trying to write a chapter on this - a totally new one - but I am
> not done yet. When it is done, I suspect future students will not
> have the same problems you all have experienced.
> Yes, Stefan - these examples are written correctly!

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