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From:  Ingvild Roald
Date:  Sun Jul 9, 2000  5:50 pm
Subject:  Re: rotation symbols and directions

Yes. Got it. Beautyful illustrations and explanations. The slanted paper is
an exelent help for the understanding.
(I do *not intend to re-write all of the dictionary, it was just this one
'ion' sign. My iformation about ASL comes mostly fro Gallaudet, by the way.)


>From: Valerie Sutton
>Reply-To: SignWriting List
>To: SignWriting List
>Subject: Re: rotation symbols and directions
>Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 06:56:52 -0700
>At 4:21 AM -0700 7/7/00, Ingvild Roald wrote:
>>I am confused too. Because sometimes the little finger is supposed
>>to lead, and sometimes the thumb. How would an outsider know which
>>one 'felt' right? The rotations made in ASL feels all wrong in
>>Norwegian SL, so, as I know I have said before, I would prefer
>>symbols to mean 'clockwise' and 'anti-clockwise'. Then we would know
>>what was meant.
>>(I just had to go back into the sign file for the paper that is to
>>be posted soon, to change the ASL 'ion' rotation - I had forgotten
>>when I first wrote the sign that even if the handshapes are exatly
>>the same as in NoSL and in FiSL, the rotation is opposite).
>SignWriting List
>July 7, 2000
>Hello Everyone, and Ingvild and Stefan -
>Yes. I know. I understand the confusion, and I also understand that I
>have not been able to explain myself properly. I have some neat ideas
>for illustrations that will take care of this - at least I hope they
>Meanwhile I am no artist and words are rediculous to explain such
>things. But I can try. Please see the attached GIF.
>First, you can write EITHER the baby finger OR the thumb pattern -
>either one is fine and readable to an outsider. The idea of "feeling"
>is thrown out...there are some concrete rules.
>You are welcome to use the term clockwise or counter clockwise...that
>is fine with me. Both the thumb and the baby finger can go either
>clockwise or counter clockwise depending on the motion.
>Do not assume that ASL does "this or that" - I have no idea what ASL
>does! I know the sign for "signing" in ASL rotates one direction in
>one ASL dialect, and rotates the opposite in another ASL dialect...I
>have seen it with my own I am not sure which ASL dialect
>you are writing.
>I am looking forward to teaching the seminar to the teachers in New
>Mexico on July 20th, because I have a new way to teach the rotation
>symbols and I want to share with them. But it is a "demonstration"
>kind of teaching. The same demonstration in person, has to be
>captured in illustrations and in print, and that will take me time.
>I hope you won't change your dictionaries just because Valerie Sutton
>needs some better teaching materials - ha!
>The writing system will evolve and improve anyway, and all
>dictionaries will go through changes. I am sure your dictionary is
>excellent right now, and is the best under the circumstances I have
>handed you.
>My word description of the GIF below:
>Try to imagine that your arm is an axis (a straight line up and
>down). It is encased inside a clear plastic tube that encircles the
>entire arm. On the baby finger, you have a pencil with the point
>sticking out touching the tube. The same kind of pencil is also on
>your thumb. So imagine the silly picture of a hand with a pencil on
>both the baby fingers and thumb, inside a clear plastic tube!
>Now imagine rotating that arm and hand. The pencils will make marks
>on the tube. The marks are the arrows on the rotation symbols. You
>can use either the baby finger's mark, or the thumb's mark - it
>doesn't matter.
>Meanwhile, your paper is at a slant. The top of your page is closer
>to the front wall (away from you). The bottom of your page is closer
>to your chest (close to you). So the curve reflects that too...the
>curve drawn by the finger that is further away from you (wall in
>front of you) will be curving up since that is going towards the top
>of the page, and the curve that is closer to your chest, will be
>curving down, towards your chest...please see attached GIF:
><< _pencilonsides.gif >>
><< pencilonsides.gif >>

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