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From:  joe martin
Date:  Tue Aug 1, 2000  10:49 am
Subject:  Re: Japanese Bibel Project - second turn

Hi Stefan!
Yes, I agree about the discussing, and no, I don't feel hurt, insulted,
threatened or any other thing by constructive criticism. On the contrary, I
welcome it in the interest of improving my stuff. Lots of people don't feel
like that, unfortunately, for whatever reason, and that is just a fact we
have to deal with. I understand that something like 80% of the readers on
these lists just lurk, and never post anything. that is OK, too. They learn
passively by reading. those of us like you and I who want to be a little
more active, just have to lead the way. no problem, really. I"m just very
grateful to have a discussion partner. (^_^) <-- BTW, that's just a happy
little face; I like it.
I'm printing out your posts for study at home. :-)

>From: Stefan Woehrmann
>Reply-To: SignWriting List
>To: SignWriting List
>Subject: Japanese Bibel Project - second turn
>Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 18:34:35 +0200
>Hi Joe and friends ,
>here is my comment on the next frames we try to transcribe.
>I believe that the signer wants to sign "Jesus" but I guess that he
>the palm of the
>left hand 5 fingers spread palm to the left with his middle and
>ringfingers -
>I couldnīt find this handshape on the keyboard - so I tried my own
>The next movement isnīt clear enough. I guess (again) that he touches his
>palm of the C-handshaped left hand parallel to the floor palm inside with
>with what ??
>please help - is it the index -finger ?
>(Here we can find back to our discussion on how exactly we need to
>transcribe - I guess he signs Jesus - and the usual sign for Jesus - touch
>of middlefingers at the plams of the hands would serve perfectly in order
>write down a signed meaning -
>but thatīs not what our project was set up for. In case we decide to write
>what we see - I mean movement-sequences - I would love to be able to do
>that. )
>Nitpicking - ha !
>The signer starts with looking ahead down but ends with looking forward -
>eyebrows up - is it important ? Does he indicate - Iīm talking about the
>important person?
>How to write this shift from looking down in front of you to straight
>forward ???? I mean - should we write to faces - starting with the first
>part of the sign - and then another face with the eyes open ? - or arrows ?
>Joe wrote arrows underneath the eyebrows (up )
>How to interpret these arrows - single stem down ?
>Hi Joe do you have the excellent "Lessons in Signwriting " Textbook and
>I looked up chapter 10 Facial Expressions . In my point of view it is one
>the most difficult issues and I would love to see more examples - photo or
>drawing and SW-symbol -
>Single- stemmed down arrow is reserved for the direction towards the body.
>double-stemmed arrows down in this case would indicate "Eyes Gaze Down" (X,
>page 3)
>Next frame:
>Joe you picked the curved single-stem to the right - indicating that he
>moves his right hand like in you (many persons) .
>I would rather identify a small up down curve to the right - and therefore
>picked the double-stemmed arrow - do you agree ?
>Interesting to me is , that the signer starts with eyes open, eyebrows up -
>but ends with his head slightly bent to the right (expressive point of
>eyes closed - once again the problem - how to write the two faces ---
>Thanks for your symbol for head-orientation -- I have to study that - seems
>to be one of my ongoing problems
>Joe you can see his cheeks filled with air ? The quality of my video isnīt
>good enough.
>You can identify his mouth with kissing lips ?
>(Iīm sorry - I canīt see that neither)
>I guess that his eyebrows arenīt up, when he closes his eyes . ???
>next frame -
>I agree with you - eyebrows up. He looks at his left 3 fingers hand - how
>write that ?
>The English explanation for what you wrote (single-stemmed arows down to
>left : "Eyes Gaze Back-Diagonal" My English isnīt good enough but is this
>back-diagonal ?
>Eyes Gaze forward diagonal is written with single-stemmed arrows upwards to
>the right or left! In this case - to be sooooooo exactly you wanted to
>indicate down - forward diagonal and at the same time diagonal to the left
>Valerie should help ;-) Do we need double-stemmed arrows down to the left
>with the horizontal line ????
>For everyday spelling we can forget that - just lift the left hand a litle
>bit - now you can watch it with the single-stemmed "Eyes gaze
>forward-diagonal!" symbol :-)
>What about the left hand - palm facing the body -
>What was your idea to "draw" the fingers the way you did - ?
>Do you identify the left handshape as a f-hand ? I canīt see that - I
>for the W-hand -
>I attached my transcription . Would appriciate your feed-back very much
>----- Original Message -----
>From: joe martin
>Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 8:04 PM
>Subject: Shyuwa
> > Here is my gif: nextthree.gif
> >
> > It's past time we did some more on the Japanese Video Transcription, so
> > thought I would send my versions of the next signs. Let's compare notes
> > these; you guys can post your versions, add comments--we can let Valerie
> > rest for a while (like she ever does--ha!)
> > I suspect my first two signs might be a compound, only one sign rather
> > two as I wrote it; what do you others think?
> >
> > _______________________________________
> > Joe Martin, Plain Old Ordinary Student
> > Top Left Corner USA
> >
> >

  Replies Author Date
3942 Re: Japanese Bibel Project - second turn Mark Penner Wed  9/20/2000

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